Curse

Turtle222 · Jun 26, 2008, 01:28 AM // 01:28

You have got to be a moron if you try to please everyone. Let anet do their thing. As long as they are honest about it, it's cool with me

Dru Stratas · Jun 29, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle222

You have got to be a moron if you try to please everyone. Let anet do their thing. As long as they are honest about it, it's cool with me

I completely agree, they are obviously pleasing a large portion of the player base, and one needs to realise that the people who use guru do not count for everyone, which I seem to disregard also, sometimes.

All in all, I am pleased with what anets doing, the majority of it anyway, and those who QQ about changes, should probably just take a look at what they had been asking for originally. *looks back at zaishen title emote*

lorph · Jun 29, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

For some reason players here believe they have some divine right from Arena Net. When Arena Net doesn't respond, we get bent out of shape. Arena Net doesn't have the time to listen to every single players concerns.

What ever happened to just enjoying Guild Wars? Playing the game to have fun? Not to get a rare armor set, title, weapon. Players today don't seem to be enjoying the game.... Players are playing to max titles as efficiently as possible. Players are so desperate to max titles they even pay people to play the game for them.... What happened to the days when players treated each other with half an ounce of respect? I guess I could go back a few years.... Guild Wars seems to have become the trash can of the internet. After every pvp match trash talk is inevitable. If a new player has a question he is mocked.

Something needs to change.

Its not the players job to conform to the game. Its arena.net's job to conform to the players.

If you get bored of guildwars, its not your fault, or mine. You can't be entertained forever.

Some games found that a good way to keep people playing is with collecting loot. Arenanet implements this with rare skins and titles.

Age · Jun 29, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

Well, that's the problem, everytime something changes, one group accepts and other group get pissed. Everyone does agree that not everyone can agree in one thing. ANet is doing what's best for everyone, although they do know that not everyone will accept it. For example, lots of farmers (including me) is hyper-glad that Shadow Form got a massive buff for the first time, and thus make getting ectos and shards a bit easier (as well as making the 55 monk obsolete), but in return, there are some group of people who do not like this update as they feel that there will be lots of people walking around with obsidian armor and having the armor no longer the "elite" status (as well those who use ectos traditionally as currency).

I wouldn't say the 55 is obsolete it is just a lot of 55ers and this includes those SS/SV Neecos aren't dueling in the UW as it use to be before the SF buff.Players are using thier 55s to go out and have fun with not to merely farm unless it is thier only way to do so.I really hope the ecto market crashes as I see the remaining time of favour is going down.

This means that only those with SF Sins will be the only ones going down to the UW maybe W/Rts doing smite run but nothing compared to a SF Sin.How long has this been going for?Yes I really hope the ecto market crashes and there are less players going down to the UW or simply give up on a goal to get 1 set of FoW.There is another way of looking at and that is if ecto stays at it current rate or get on par with rubies.I don't see Anet doing much about this even to those who are oppssed to it.

Damian979 · Jun 30, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Anyone remember a time when you simply learned to DEAL with what the programmers put in a game? No weekly updates, no "please make this stronger and this weaker", or "this (insert QQ here) is ruining my life". You paid money, they took your money and that was it.

Targren · Jun 30, 2008, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

Anyone remember a time when you simply learned to DEAL with what the programmers put in a game? No weekly updates, no "please make this stronger and this weaker", or "this (insert QQ here) is ruining my life". You paid money, they took your money and that was it.

Ahh, the gold old days, where part of the joy of video games was finding out that if you stayed 1/8th of a screen to the right and 1/4 of the screen from the top, the giant spaceship's lasers would just miss you. The release of this hint didn't lead to "patches" and "nerfs" but became part of gamer lore.

Oh Gradius, where art thou?

In the name of the holy one, we chant UUDDLRLRBAS

Wildi · Jun 30, 2008, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Arenenet should listen to players Like <list of pvp players>.

..
Joe

yeah then say bye bye to pve/pvp skills split to pve experience and say hello to monster pvp match

doudou_steve · Jun 30, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's not that they need to stop listening altogether, just that they need to stop listening to the wrong people.

How can you judge the wrong from the good?

If you think that most of your "opinions/suggestions" are good for the game, it's not to you to JUDGE it, but it's Anet's job. It's not because they put something that you don't like, means it's a bad decision and i think that most of Anet's decisions are good for the game, of course there are flaws, but no games is perfect.

Let Anet do their Job, and please people, stop thinking you know the game better than them.

Omega X · Jun 30, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by doudou_steve

How can you judge the wrong from the good?

If you think that most of your "opinions/suggestions" are good for the game, it's not to you to JUDGE it, but it's Anet's job. It's not because they put something that you don't like, means it's a bad decision and i think that most of Anet's decisions are good for the game, of course there are flaws, but no games is perfect.

Let Anet do their Job, and please people, stop thinking you know the game better than them.

Sounds like a Pot/Kettle/Black post.

Shuuda · Jun 30, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

The reason A-net never listens to us is simply and good: 95% of this community are stupid or not worth listening to. The remaining 5% (the people A-net should listen to) are people who have understanding of how games work, or are high end PvPers who understand a thing called game balance. But that last 5% has already left the game for the most, so there is not reason at all for A-net to listen to you.

Targren · Jun 30, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

The reason A-net never listens to us is simply and good: 95% of this community are stupid or not worth listening to. The remaining 5% (the people A-net should listen to) are people who have understanding of how games work, or are high end PvPers who understand a thing called game balance. But that last 5% has already left the game for the most, so there is not reason at all for A-net to listen to you.

Phah. It was the whinging of the PvPers that made them take as long as they did to do the obvious thing and split the skillsets.

Shuuda · Jun 30, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Phah. It was the whinging of the PvPers that made them take as long as they did to do the obvious thing and split the skillsets.

Epic lolz... seriously... and you PvE never whing about anything, right?

Face facts, all you PvErs ever did was bitch about "elitism" and how A-net were "ruining" the game with much needed skill balances, even though PvE is far too easy and no skill balance had actually made things harder. It's why I never question why A-net doesn't listen to you, why would they want to?

Sora267 · Jun 30, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Your post's main flaw is that you're referring to the community as one whole body. In reality, different sections of the community prefer different things, and those who are opposed to something are often more vocal than those who are content with it. This is why, when referring to the community as a whole instead of the individual opinion-based "sects" it really is, it seems to be a group of mouth-foaming hypocrites.

AshenX · Jun 30, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The community is free, in fact I would even say encouraged, to give opinions regarding changes.

From there, it is the job of the CR team to determine which opinions are the most valid in the context of good game design and benefits to the players, and pass them along. It's not the job of the community to pick one side and create a 10-point summary for submission.

ANet is human, and if they make mistakes designing the game, the first people to find out are usually the players. Updates shouldn't be taken as 'god moves in mysterious ways!' when they don't seem to make sense - you play the game, you know what works, so if an update is messed up, why shouldn't you relay that?

If the CR team can't distinguish ordinary whining over things being moved from the status quo and potentially useful or valid feedback/complaints regarding a change, then there are bigger problems than the community can fix.

Wisdom. Thank You.

Shuuda · Jun 30, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshenX

Wisdom. Thank You.

If you're directing that at me, I never said people couldn't have opinions, I was just saying why A-net doesn't listen to most of them.

Quote:

If the CR team can't distinguish ordinary whining over things being moved from the status quo and potentially useful or valid feedback/complaints regarding a change, then there are bigger problems than the community can fix.

Pretty much, most of the opinions here are just whining (it's undeniable), hence why A-net doesn't listen.

Bryant Again · Jun 30, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

We don't what data they have, but the # are a good way to know if what people complain about here reflects what is an actuality. People have a tendency to see things in a bubble. Their experience becomes the whole of the world and their perception is warped.

Depends on what's being argued about, but yeah what's above is very true. The issues that I've been concerning myself with recently (just a look at my post history can tell you that) revolves around PvE depth, essentially. All of the things I consider "problems" don't concern the "majority" of players because they don't know or don't care or both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doudou_steve

How can you judge the wrong from the good?

That's for ANet to decide. If they have clear goals for the game, then the "wrong" and "good" ideas shouldn't be hard to figure out. But the problem is that they don't have clear goals for the game, as evidenced by the trashing of PvE and their original ideals.

toastgodsupreme · Jun 30, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

So I had this really long thing written out, then I went to the wiki to confirm some facts about skill changes that have been made. And I came across this...

Quote:

This spell has a half dozen counters, but because it can't be defended against well it must be broken, A warrior or ranger with much higher defense vs earth damage can take these hits like a champ, and use Wild Blow to wipe off that stance more often that it can be cast, it can be distracted for major disability, it can be backfire or soul leach causing the Assassin to kill himself even faster than you, maybe even restoring you, several earth damage or high armor skills can be used, like Stoneflesh Aura, Ward Against Elements, oh just imagine using Mantra of Earth, 3 energy every time it is used. No we would never use Mantra of Earth, because seperate elemental defenses are never significant enough to consider a focused counter, yes anything playing outside of your convenient defense must be broken, and should be nerfed so you can play with the skills you feel are acceptable even if there are counters.

I don't see anything broken here, what I see is a communities failure to consider effective defensive options because they are comfortable with the metagames typical influence and don't want to trade off convenient defenses for something which is designed to exploit the opponents lack of preperation, not lack of counters. I think this comes down to a serious issue about Elemental Spell damage being overlooked as something which should be mitigated by steriotypical defensive abilities, and that most spells arn't enough of a threat, and elemental counters arn't convenient enough to make this a significant concern which foes have to prepare for instead of complain about because they got owned by a build which is easy to mitigate with simple preperation. But since no one is willing to concider proper development of these skill types, how about excersising typical defenses like energy denial or the every present option of spiking the assassin which is clear range of all your attackers and a given target for liable defense?

Until I hear why all the counters available in the game are not effective against this build, this nerf call is totally bogus IMO. If for some reason a particular counter is ineffective against this, than maybe the counters should be improved, and if the use of the counter is too remote to consider, than maybe its the spells they are ment to defend that are not up to par, maybe, just maybe, the metagame is just unprepared for earth spell spam, and your just suffering from good preperation. I don't see how this is any different than facing a hex heavy build without hex counters, oh hexes must be broken. What if physical damage counters were not a part of the metagame?, would they be broken too? A strategy game is suppose to incorperate enough alternatives to keep every opponent at risk of being unprepared, otherwise we may as well all share the same skills and duke it out for who can control their character better, I personally want more diversity and alternatives.--BahamutKaiser 13:55, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

It's kind of a long read, but what he said can be applied to many nerfs that have happened over the years in this game.

Every time a build becomes popular in pvp and manages to hold halls, it gets nerfed. Many of these can be countered against. But like Kaiser said above...
"what I see is a communities failure to consider effective defensive options because they are comfortable with the metagames typical influence and don't want to trade off convenient defenses for something which is designed to exploit the opponents lack of preperation, not lack of counters"

Honestly... I HATE watching GvG battles. It's always the same team vs the same team (build-wise). Each team has the same amount of warriors, mesmers, monks, and eles. BORING. But this is what the COMMUNITY wanted. New classes? Nononono, we don't use new classes! We need those new classes to be nerfed so we can stick with the old classes (I play a mesmer btw as my main, hi2u old class).

So yeah... ANET is dumb for listening to the babies, the community is dumb for being babies.

Yichi · Jun 30, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Ok I've read about enough of this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by doudou_steve

Let Anet do their Job, and please people, stop thinking you know the game better than them.

FACT: there are players that play this game that do know whats better for the game than other players, even some of ANET's own employees. By the quality of most of the posts on guru, not many of you are them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Phah. It was the whinging of the PvPers that made them take as long as they did to do the obvious thing and split the skillsets.

No, it was the constant whining of the precious farmers and the bad PvE players that refused to do nothing more than MM/OBfleshtank/SF/Ursan without any other concept of what other skills were that got the skill split changed. These are the same people that bought a game based on PvP being the endgame and balanced as such, then bitched the first time they got a skill update because they were too stupid to realize why the skill was overpowered and couldn't accept the fact that in a PvP oriented game, that skills will be balanced around PvP as such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

some crap...

Hi. maybe you should try learning a thing or two about what you're actually talking about before you post. You'll look less like a complete retard when you do.

The PvP community only uses the 4 new classes over the core classes when theres some dumb ass gimmick or imbalance they can take advantage of. Each of the 4 classes were designed, executed, and implimented very poorly. Each of these 4 classes to this day would require major re-tooling for both PvE and PvP to even resemble anything toat remotely comes close to balance.

In a game based around player skill, you should not have to run nothing but degenerative builds to have success. Take this current MAT for a perfect example. Everything that's wrong with the current metagame in guildwars was on display in one form or another.

DarkNecrid · Jun 30, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

toast:
this is the last time I'm going to say this, because I've said it probably 500 times. Just because something has a counter, doesn't mean it is balanced. Does Shadow Form have counters? yes, and about 99% of them don't fit in with any build and you would be gimping yourself to a game of Rock (if you meet Shadow form...) paper (if you don't and face a bad set of players) and scissors (if you don't...)

You can't prepare for every team, which is why skilled people run balanced. It tries to prepare for as many teams as possible without gimping yourself. Each of the 4 classes were terribad, I shouldn't have to explain why, but I will.

Assassin: Is in the same role as a Warrior. Does more damage, takes more damage, and has a broken mechanic abused by every other class but it. Woo.

Ritualists: out heal monks, have better spirits than Rangers. Have broken AoE spells. Woo.

Dervishes: Have AoE physical attacks, can become immune to conditions, does heavy damage. Woooo.

Paras: Does sword damage at long range, has an infinite duration unstrippable IAS, has infinite energy, etc.

The classes don't have their own roles, they play off previous existing roles. A Warrior already does more damage than a Sin in an adrenal spike, so why would you take a Sin over a War in an 8v8 environment? Gimmicks.

Silly Warrior · Jul 01, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

It's been over a year since the announcement of Guild Wars 2.

No screenshots.

No new info. (Well of course the news about no Beta in 08, which isn't GOOD news)

Nothing, at all.

For a non-monthly service game, Anet does a decent job, but fails to communicate well to its fanbase. This is apparent. And because it is apparent, people complain and from complaints come dislike.